Debate Battle! VAMPIRES or WEREWOLVES?
December 3rd 2007 03:20
Which creature is more in control of their dark side: vampires or werewolves?
These infamous creatures of horror have been terrifying and fascinating us for centuries; the fetid undead and the hirsute lycanthrope. Each has their own different folklores from culture to culture, but essentially the mythology remains the same. Those elements of menace are uniform when it comes down to brass bloody tacks.
But which supernatural creature is less afflicted and, perhaps, more dangerous? Is one, ultimately, more evil than the other? Obviously the vampire and the werewolf can be ferocious and lethal, but how do they keep the shadow in check? Are they able to control it at all?
Here are just a few things to consider, although they are not the final word, and are, obviously, open to conjecture.
Vampires
For:
~ They are immortal
~ They choose their victims specifically, often with intent
~ They are famous for their dark charm and seduction technique
Against:
~ They are undead
~ They are nocturnal
~ They rely on drinking blood for survival
Werewolves:
For:
~ They are hot-blooded with animal instincts
~ They are not afraid of sunlight
~ Some species of lycanthrope can transform at will
Against:
~ They carry a curse
~ Most are governed by the phase of the moon
~ They are bestial by nature
So, what do you think? Where does your opinion and/or argument lie?
1) The debate will take place via comments in response to the official debate post on the host blog.
2) Anyone can participate.
3) You can take either side of an argument regardless of your actual views. In fact you are encouraged to take the other side now and again, it's mind expanding.
4) Insults are to be witty and in good humor. Apart from that stick to arguing about the facts.
5) Anonymous comments are discouraged.
These infamous creatures of horror have been terrifying and fascinating us for centuries; the fetid undead and the hirsute lycanthrope. Each has their own different folklores from culture to culture, but essentially the mythology remains the same. Those elements of menace are uniform when it comes down to brass bloody tacks.
But which supernatural creature is less afflicted and, perhaps, more dangerous? Is one, ultimately, more evil than the other? Obviously the vampire and the werewolf can be ferocious and lethal, but how do they keep the shadow in check? Are they able to control it at all?
Here are just a few things to consider, although they are not the final word, and are, obviously, open to conjecture.
Vampires
For:
~ They are immortal
~ They choose their victims specifically, often with intent
~ They are famous for their dark charm and seduction technique
Against:
~ They are undead
~ They are nocturnal
~ They rely on drinking blood for survival
Werewolves:
For:
~ They are hot-blooded with animal instincts
~ They are not afraid of sunlight
~ Some species of lycanthrope can transform at will
Against:
~ They carry a curse
~ Most are governed by the phase of the moon
~ They are bestial by nature
So, what do you think? Where does your opinion and/or argument lie?
1) The debate will take place via comments in response to the official debate post on the host blog.
2) Anyone can participate.
3) You can take either side of an argument regardless of your actual views. In fact you are encouraged to take the other side now and again, it's mind expanding.
4) Insults are to be witty and in good humor. Apart from that stick to arguing about the facts.
5) Anonymous comments are discouraged.
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Comment by Cibbuano
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I've never seen the appeal of werewolves, even as a kid. Changing into a wolf just doesn't seem that terrifying to me... maybe I'm watching the wrong movies?
Comment by jon
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As far as being the more scary, I would have to say Vampires as well. I think I would have more of a chance of tricking a non-thinking beast rather than a smart vamp. Also they can fly which is pretty cool, and makes it much harder to get away.
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Comment by Michaelie
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BUT
I will have to go with werewolves. I think I have told you of my penchant for them, Bryn? It's because of Angela Carter's dark and depraved yet sensuous and sardonic stories. A lot from The Bloody Chamber feature werewolves or some twist on associated legends and folktales, and I can't get enough of them.
Michaelie
Comment by Damo
For the Sake of Argument
My Apologetics
Whereas the Vampires are the used car salesmen of the undead. They are smug and snobbish, polite only to get what they want.. You can just picture Dracular saying his coffin was only used by a little old lady who drove it to church on Sundays.
Here is the problem. Werewolve are macho and masuline but they never seem to have much in the way of she-werewolves. However just like used car salesmen the vampires have hot babes all over the place.
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
I'm with you there ... Vampires do have the sensual element down pat, but actually, there's an untapped animalistic sexuality about werewolves I'm intrigued by (I'm working on ideas for a screenplay ...) The Company of Wolves was a great movie (I haven't read the story though) ...
Damo, sensational comments! Excellent work! Brilliant analogies too!
The debate is hotting up indeed!!!
Comment by Mountain Fog
Infognito
They both chomp on your neck, usually uninvited.
They both either kill you, or enslave you to become one of them.
They both transform, so each has a dormant, safe time.
They are both victims and perpetrators.
They enjoy their work, when it's happening.
And I could go on...but then...no one would be bothered reading what I had said.
So, the real turnoffs...it has to be the hairy one, I mean, all you get from a Werewolf is a fanging, fleas and hair on your clothing...but I guess it is fair to say, who would care about clothing with your neck ripped open?
I go for the Vampire; he is human like, sophisticated, usually, has a sense of seduction and can deliver his moment of truth, with some sensual subtlety...unless you pissed him off..or her..sorry.
Of course, I share my bed every night with a small and slightly rotund "Were-pug", but we keep to our own kind!
cheers
fog
Comment by Lilla
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*lol* still laughing at Damo's comment too much to make one of my own, but it was pretty much along those lines.
Vampires do everything with a premeditated sensuality, wharewolves seem victims of circumstance, but I love their wildness and honesty. However, I am a fickle woman where ghouls and demons are concerened, and wiill probably change my mind tomorrow, anyway.
Hard decision.
Lilla ...
Comment by Cibbuano
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Comment by Damo
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Comment by Mr Nice Guy
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That said I tend to side with the often Armani-clad debanaire types who oft have a penchant for either the gorgeous gals or the pin-up lads.
To say I'm a bit of a sucker for that kind of thing would be too horrible a pun though.
MNG
Comment by Damo
For the Sake of Argument
My Apologetics
Vampires might look neat and party like it is Translavania 1999 but would you let your daughter go out with one?
No me, no way. nu uh!
Atleast with a
bikiewerewolf what you see is what you get. They may be rough on the outside but I bet they treat their mothers well. If only they would wash their clothes more often.Vampires are that sickly super nice guy who is just to friendly to trust. I hate
used-car salesmenreal-estate agentsvampires who suck the life out of you before running off with your daughter. When she finnally gets to his castle she find it is a dump and he has a surprize for her. Meet my other wifes. If I wanted that for my daughter I would move to the southern states of the USA.Comment by Ahmed
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Comment by Lilla
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Not to put too light a spin on your circumstance, but it sounds like you've already had your first vampire bite . . .that's okay my friend, traditionally it takes three bites before you join the walking dead and become a vampire yourself...
You might try a warewolf next, their bite is more honest and heals quicker.
Lilla ...
Comment by DeAnne
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The question, if I'm not mistaken, was which is more in control of his/her darkside? That really depends on the movie/story in question. I am a sucker (no pun intended) for vampire flicks.
Honestly, I don't think either has much control over his/her darkside, unless you want to talk about a movie like Teen Wolf. In the scary ones, neither vampires nor werewolves have much control.
I guess, if I had to choose, I'd say werewolves, because they are only dark when there is a full moon. Vampires, on the other hand, are always that way.
Comment by Bryn
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Comment by KylieW
Celebrity Obsession
While werewolves are okay for most of the month. Come full moon time, Werewolves have no control over their actions.
So to me, I think vamps are more in control.
The exception to that of course would be newly made vamps. Apparently they don't have much control over themselves. But I guess new werewolves probably don't either.
And I really like that we're debating this as though both are totally real and that we're all practically experts!!
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
I'm with you there ... vampires are in control of themselves, generally speaking, for most of the time, except perhaps when they become desperate for blood ... whilst werewolves once they've transformed as ravaging beasts of prey, unable to rationalise between what is good or evil. Vampires know they're evil and generally relish it, like its a gift. Although there are the vampires who behave like their immortality is a curse, and they are afllicted, therefore have no control over the darkness that rules their lives.
Comment by D. Armenta
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Well, as the Debate Fan, I guess I will defend the less popular side and say that werewolves are more in control of their dark side than vampires are.
I cite the following, from literature and movies:
1) In "An American werewolf in London", David (main character/werewolf) was remorseful when he learned of the people he'd killed. Also, at the end scene when Alex (his love interest) is calling to him and crying in a dead-end alley, he doesn't attack her while she speaks to him. At the end he makes a suicidal leap at the large gathering of police, knowing they will kill him. He had also called home prior to this and said his goodbyes to his family, a sure sign of him making the decision to commit suicide ahead of time. That all shows some degree of control over one's dark side.
2) In Stephen King's excellent vampire novel, "Salem's Lot", the vampires seem to have no qualms about luring their own spouses, children, and other loved ones to the same fate they themselves suffer. There is no evidence of any vampires "fighting the urge" to save even their own children from becoming one of the undead. That shows a decided lack of control.
Counterpoint anyone?
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
Comment by Mountain Fog
Infognito
(SFX: LIGHTENING STRIKE, CLAP of THUNDER, EVIL WITCHES CACKLE)
Point One:
One movie an argument doth not make!
So, to argue for the werewolf, by citing the behaviour of one werewolf in "An American Werewolf In London", seems a little trite, a little shallow, a little lacking in historical depth and precedent.
One could also cite the majority of werewovles in the same film, as proving they lack any remorse, compassion or will to discontinue their antics, and that the actions of a lone (hero)werewolf were, at best, an anomaly and probably the result of a contaminated spirit and so not representative of werewolves per se.
To argue against the majority, one would have to cite many more instances in many other films, going back to the original werewolf film itself, that being; "The Werewolf":
The Werewolf is a 1913 silent short that was the first werewolf film made, directed by Henry MacRae. Although the film was destroyed, in a fire in 1924, the script survived, by Ruth Ann Baldwin, and it was based on the short story The Werewolves by Henry Beaugrand.
Plot Summary of The Werewolf:
A Navajo woman becomes a witch after erroneously coming to believe that her husband has abandoned her. She teaches the same skills to her daughter Watuma, who transforms into a wolf in order to carry out vengeance against the invading white settlers. Then, 100 years after Watuma's death, she returns from the dead to kill again.
Hardly the stuff of a conscience laden werewolf hell bent on self sacrifice!
Point Two:
DArmenta's defence, as it stands, portrays the werewolf as the only victim, but, were they not all victims at one point, both werewolf and vampire?
Point Three:
To attempt to whitewash all werewolves, by citing the American Werewolf and his suicide, is both incorrect and disingenuous. Although pitiable, even heroic, the decision was one of self inflicted death, it was not suicide, it was actually an act of "self murder", for he deems it best to kill the 'beast' to save another, and that beast is himself. By the way, "self murder" has been acknowledged in a NSW coronial inquiry.
Point Four:
Although I bow to those of a greater in-depth knowledge of werewolves, I suggest that they not only lack reason for their violent onslaughts, they also lack the ability to lessen the suffering of their vicitms and to distinguish between the small and defenseless, even their own family, unlike vampires.
In Conclusion:
The vast majority, if not all werewolves, before the American youngster werewolf, have killed their families, and other defenseless innocent victims of all age groups. The fact that they may beg to be tied up and locked away before they transform, that they may warn their families to lock themselves away from harm, that they may feel attrition once they are human again, is of no consequence.
For it is their actions as a werewolf that count. And as already stated, as evidenced in every werewolf film before An American Werewolf in London, their actions are brutal, violent and undiscerning, or caring, for whomever they attack, or the suffering they inflict.
I rest my case Your Honour, Lord Bryn!
(SFX: one solitary, slow, mocking clap from a bored audience member)
fog
barrister for the vampires.
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
Comment by Anonymous
sure having sex is great but think this
you are not all ways a vampire and some werewolves chicks have to be hot, so bang them
also werewolves has less ways to die than vampires
you have to special create the weapon to kill a werewolf but to kill a vampire all have to go is to wal-mart to get the weapons, best and cheapest is falshlight, another thing vampires cant go into a building without first being invited, also there has to be ugly vampire chicks
Comment by Anonymous
to join the game use this link
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Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by Anonymous
I do believe that vampires are more in controll of their dark sides because I personally have wittnessed much more stories of wolf like creatures that can walk like humans, more so than hearing of a strange neck wound that consists of two wounds, and the victim being completly drained of blood. I do believe though in my opinion, werewolfs are filthy, disburing, mean, and smell like dog. yuck!
Vampires are suductive, beautiful, dark, sinister, and can be loving and caring.
Werewolves can be loving and caring although they are very vilolent.
I am not compleltly taking one side, but Vampires appeal to me more so than dogs.
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
Comment by Anonymous
p.s. i love reading i really liked the lord of the rings
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
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Comment by Bryn
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Comment by Anonymous
Werewolves might not be able to control themselves when they transform, but at least they have remorse later on. But vampires are in control the whole time and know exactly what they do and don't care. They are purely evil.
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
Comment by wolfgirl
The more gruesome weres are-the better
I thought your site was pretty interesting, so I registered.
(I'm the last anon comment)
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
I do love vampirism (Bram Stoker's Dracula is one of my favourite novels), but I'm very partial to lycanthropy ... something very carnal and primal about them, and they look far more menacing, although I was impressed with the look of the vamps in 30 Days of Night.
So what are your favourite werewolf movies then?
Cheers for the blog props too!
Comment by wolfgirl
I've never seen any really scary vampire movies either. My friend said she was reading the book, I am Legend, which the movie was based off, and in the book the infected people were actually more like vampires than rabid zombies.
Was 30 Days of Nights creepy? I saw some girls complaining that the vampires in the movie weren't sexy, hahaha
Comment by wolfgirl
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
yeah The Howling rocks. So does An American Werewolf in London and Dog Soldiers.
I loved the novel I Am Legend, I'm reticent in seeing the movie ... I wish Ridley Scott had managed to make it back in the 90s, but the project was scuttled ...
30 Days of Night was very good, some sensational special effects and pretty hideous vamps ... my papa was in it too, he's the first victim, the old guy who gets his head ripped off !
Comment by Wolfie
Other side Werewolves human-like except fullmoon. When transformed all physical traits drastic increese and all mental traits decreese. Learning to control their curse over time, making them able to change to wolf form at will, and regaing control of their actions when transformed.
I'm i big werewolf fan, and say screw vamps
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
Comment by Anonymous
(i'm the 11 year old guy)
Comment by Bat Beats Wolf, Its as simple as that
Although Warewolves are able to take control of their powers after a while they still die, as a result they must regularly introduce new members to heard. Whereas Vampires, being immortal do not need to add to their group once they deem them selves strong enough. So while the foolish MORTAL!! werewolves are biting everyone human in sight just to keep their group going, Vampires can carefully choose new initiates without having to make any hasty decisions.
Counter argue that, FUR BALLS!!
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
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Horrorphile
Are you a lycathrope?
Comment by Anonymous
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I am specialy against werewolfs because they are more often than not very brutal and aggressive.
Vampires are the perfect creatures of the night!
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
Comment by The Real Jim Sladey
However, this doesn't mean that werewolves are more to blame for their actions. A vampire does not lose all self-control in its permanent dark side state like a werewolf does. If a vampire chooses to act in an evil manner, surely this is less excusable than a werewolf losing all self-control whether they like it or not? How can a werewolf embrace its violent transformation, when (I assume!) they are barely conscious of what they are doing in that state? Vampires can come to terms with their existence, are consciously aware of what theyre doing and CHOOSE their actions.
I think the question of sexuality is an interesting one. A vampire is manipulative, charming, making you submit to their will through their powers of seduction. I have not come across references to werewolf sexuality in any books or films... A werewolf, in wolf form, is obviously uncontrollable, a whirlwind of unbridled fury. But when in human form, I think a werewolf would still contain that bestial, raw power, which has the potential to be far more exciting... vampires play games, werewolves are blunt and brutal, but honest. They make no excuses for what they are.
I think the fact that werewolves have less control over their dark side has a much greater sexual appeal... who knows what could happen...
Comment by Bryn
Horrorphile
Comment by Anonymous
And I quake from head to feet.
For this night I know, in the town below,
A werewolf prowls the street.
He stalks with stealth and cunning
In his search for a soul to eat.
With matted hair, and jaws that tear,
A werewolf prowls the street.
His face is filled with fury
As his brain cries out for meat.
And, oh, his prey shall not see day
For the werewolf prowls the street.
So I shake beneath my covers
And I shiver in my sheets,
And I cower in my bed, with a pillow on my head,
As the werewolf prowls the street.
Comment by Anonymous
He feels the pain of splitting skin
The rage that bursts out from within
The rage that courses through his veins
Through which he channels all his pain
The hunter, released from ancient bonds
Tastes the blood for which he longs
Freinds, family, they all mean naught
This life is new, with danger fraught
Gaia, the Earth Mother, blesses them all
In return they answer her call
A call to arms, defeat the Wyrm
To succeed there is much to learn
Control the anger, harness the rage
The ancient force, the curse of ages
So now he welcomes the rage within
This rage, once bidden, beneath his skin.
Comment by Wolfsbane
Comment by Anonymous
Dark is the night,
the full moon haunts the sky
and haunts my spirit
and my body.
And moonlight shrouds my soul
in pain and rage.
Dark is the night,
in shadows I will hide
and yearn for healing
and for silence.
And when there is no rest
I think of death.
Dark is the night,
and cursed by a bite′s
my life, forever
I′ll be damned.
And love I′ll always shun –
it′s for the best.
Dark is the night,
alone I′m on the run.
In silent moonlight
there′s a shadow,
and blood drips from his claws
like ruby rain.
Now dawns the day,
my memory awakes
and I am moaning
for my victim-
the body, pale and crimson
′neath my feet.
Falls now the night,
the new moon dark and black.
And I am fleeing
from this place,
from this village and the people
I called home.
Comment by Mystic
Werewolves...they kill just the same, they love the chase and mess with your mind until you can't take it anymore. You may think that they're just stupid dogs but some are smarter than humans.
I admit that vampires have more intellect than werewolves but I don't see how intelligence has to do with being in control of your dark side. It all depends on the type of vampire...or even werewolf.
That's my belief.
Mystic
Comment by Anonymous
First the werewolves in the Twilight series by Stephanie meyer are quite in tuned to their human side even when in the wolf form. They also do not attack humans but are created specifically to fight against vampires.
And second what about the legend of Bisclavret? In this legend the werewolf remains a faithfull companion to the king and never attacks any one until his former wife, and betrayer, comes to court. This suggests they can control their darker side and also suggests they stay connected to their former life.
So, here's two examples do with them what you will.
Comment by Anonymous
Some of them even knowns necromancy, a trait giving them infinitly more power, being able to raise vast armies of skeletions, ghouls, zombies and other dead stuff. The werewolf is often described as the equal of a vampire, with a different life, but equal in power. But they never gets powers to rival necromancy, save a small gift of gaining the trust of animals, particulary wolwes. This points out that vampires got more control of their share of power.
The vampire can also do much more than the mad werewolfs, and while appearing sligthly easier to kill, they are not.
Okay, a child might kill a vampire with the right weapons and a little luck, but only certain things can hurt the monster. a werewolf can be killed by anything containing considerable power. Add the other stuff and you got the true lord of the night.
Vampires 4eva! (or better yet, not...)
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by impartial Anonymous
But in my opnion neither of these creaters are immortal because if look at certain movies, which many of you have, you will find that both species have counters. The movie Underworld is a prime example: UV (ultra violet) bullets and silver nitrate bullets were very effective against them.
Comparing werewolfs to vampires is like apples to oranges. Although if they did fight each other a werewolf would win in hand to hand combat and a vampire at longer range.
Thus no one is better each with their own strenghts and weaknesses. All that matters is opinion. And when you finally figure out which is better. You have to ask your self one more question.
Is it better than Chuck Norris?
didn't think so!
Comment by eVE
If you were to make a being out of these 2 it would have been the perfect "in control of it's dark side" creature!!
I believe that they both have the same amount of darkness in them, that depending from witch side are you looking.
I do favor vampires for the sensuality, the perfect definition of the 2 sexes, the sharp fangs, the cold and lifeless body, the mystique...that being of course for their identity with humans...
But werewolves are none the less below what I said. Every human has an animalic part in them that gets out now and then in rages of fury. So werewolves represent that part, when you transcend into another being/an animal.
p.s.: Bryn I blame you for having that idiotically book as a favorite...
I'm from Romania and besides that the book is very bad written, it casts a bad shadow on my country. And as a surplus in it's stupidity, people actually believe that we live like that, and believe that Romania has only rocky mountains and blood drinking peasants...and so on!
To say the truth Bram Stoker didn't even actually come to Romania, he wrote the book in Ireland!
Comment by impartial Anonymous
you hit the nail right on it's head
another though, why if vampires and werewolfs are so much (for the lack of a better word) "better" than humans in the aspects of strenght, agility and cunning. why did we devolp weapons to kill these creatures. This proves once again that humanity is the most advanced killing machine created, intended or not. We are constatly finding better ways to kill things. So are vampires and werewolfs really that "evil". Or do we just need to look onto ourselfs to find the true monsters, that maybe werewolfs and vampires were modeled after.
Don't get me wrong, there were great people in this world like Mother Teresa and Jesus and Gandi who thought of every way to rid the world
of killing. But just think for a moment about what I said.
Sorry about getting so off the topic of the post.
Comment by Anonymous
and no im not making this up im making a report about it
Comment by Anonymous
Comment by Mystic
Comment by Wolfish Insincts
CHAOSComment by Shady Anonymous
However, I think that vampires probably do have more control over their dark side, especially if we're looking at more contemporary fiction ideals. They seem to keep a free will, though most of them are supposed to be the embodiment of evil & don't really care anyway.
But if you read into the actual origin legends of werewolves, they're a lot different than in modern fiction. Some of them were put under curses by witches or sorcerers, some were witches or sorcerers doing Satan's deeds, & others were warriors for God, fighting the agents of Hell to keep Earth safe. Except for those who were cursed, most of them were supposed to be fully aware of what they were doing & could definitely control their animal form. However, the cursed ones are said to have little control & were supposed to kill those they loved most first. So the question of how much power over their dark side did they have could go either way.
In most myths, werewolves were incredibly intelligent & sometimes immortal, giving them some abilities similar to those of vampires. I don't know all that much about vampire folklore, simply because I've never been very interested. However, I do know that most tales portrayed them as very ugly & corpse-like, more like zombies than the suave guys we see in movies today. So yeah, not quite so sexy. Give me wolfish, carnal desires any day.
Comment by teron